Curse

freak_jay · Nov 16, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Salve Rangers,

after a long time playing and enjoying the well known ranger builds i got bored and that is why I want to try something different.

I took a look at the abilities of pets and in my opinion there are two interessting facts that makes them viable:

Quote:

Pets in PvE take 33% less damage and deal 33% more damage in combat.

Quote:

Pets receive death penalty in PvP, but not in PvE.

I would like to emphasize that the following build is not designed to be godlike. It is supposed to be a fun build that can be used in NM and HM.

OgMSY5LTyS4G8G2krifG0GyEA

It would be great if you experienced players could help me to improve it.

I was playing with the idea to swap YMLAD for Call of Protection or Otyugh's Cry to give the pet more survivability.

Thank you in anticipation,

Freak

RedDog91 · Nov 16, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

OgkjYxXZZSPYAZ1SFH/GehrSCAA
^what I mainly use. Can cause output of easily 55+ damage per hit in NM and 35+ damage in HM per hit.
have a weapon set with a vamp spear and use lightning reflexes to attack faster (pet should hold aggro so don't really need for the blocks)

can also be easily adapted into a solo farming build (as seen in quite a few of my nick farming videos) by replacing rez sig with Great Dwarf Armor for your own survivability

Illavos Lin · Nov 16, 2010, 01:03 PM // 13:03

PvE pet builds are god like as far as Spike dmg goes and with... Outyugs cry their unblock and get extra armor. Look into heal as one as well, It brings out your pet (so you dont need comfort animal, animal companion) Heals, rezzes you pet, and adds dmg in the form of life steal for a small while, that skill has been buffed to hell.

RedDog91 · Nov 16, 2010, 01:19 PM // 13:19

They buffed it becuz no1 ever ran pet builds
buffing HaO was the only way they could finally get people to run with pets outside of the totem axe farming.

BrettM · Nov 16, 2010, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I would definitely fit Call of Protection in there. Otyugh's Cry might also be a good replacement for GDW. Even with Scavenger Strike, you may find repeated use of GDW to be simply too energy intensive for a ranger. Personally, I also find it a pain to have to keep targeting the pet to cast it, and then trying to re-acquire my original foe target.

wilebill · Nov 16, 2010, 03:14 PM // 15:14

There are just a lot of variations possible, depends on situation what you want to do. Typical example: BM 14, Expertise 12, 11 Marksmanship. Lots of booze.

Asuran Scan, or something; depends on area. Drunken Master, play drunk, yeah yeah yeah! And faster woodpecker hitsies from your bow.

Vampirism, worth maxing Sunspear for this! 20 life stealing and 20 healing; this augments your bow! (Hmmm, yes. Need a bow. Forgot to mention that.) And this is a level 14 spirit that hangs around for 150 seconds and gives you something to hide behind while stone blind smashed. Never play a Ranger while sober!

Never Rampage Alone. Overpriced, but if you insist on playing sober, the 25% IAS is nice. The +3 health regen is noticeable. But a trap, or Snowstorm, or whatever you feel in the mood for can be both cheaper and more effective.

Enraged Lunge Elite everyone loves, but the extra energy from Ferocious Strike Elite can help fuel cool stuff like Snowstorm.

Poisonous Bite in case I need to put a condition on before:

Scavenger Strike, +24 damage and 14 energy. Or wait until minions make the target bleed or it gets set on fire. With Scavenger Strike and Ferocious Strike you need never run out of energy, and I hate running out of energy almost as much as I hate running out of booze!

Otyugh's Cry! Never leave your guild hall without it! I mean at BM 14 you get 24 seconds of unblockable pet plus 24 pet armor and a 30 second recharge. This skill never leaves my BM Bar ... Bar ... um ... yes ...

Comfort Animal, mustn't forget the guest of honor! Not only heals your pet and resurrects your pet, but also serves him a drink!

dasmitchies · Nov 16, 2010, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Pet AI Sucks. Buff or not, Dps or not, they still end up being a meat shield. After Anet made them unexploitable they became less usefull than any buffs would make up for. The best use for them is to soak damage as a dire pet because AI will target them due to their lower health. Despite their damage buff, if you actually look at their damage output vs a bow with same attributes the bow hits for more damage and you can switch targets. When we can finally fill parties with heroes I will have them all carry a pet just to make a meat wall, but not before then.

wilebill · Nov 16, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Yes, pet AI sucks. But you will notice this less if you well lubricated! Then too, adapt to how the pet in fact works; useless to ask ANet to fix the pet because it ain't going to happen.

Dasmitches, overall I respectfully disagree. Well, I do not disagree that DPS versus target on the island is higher with the bow. Yes it is. But bow and pet out in the field with Otyugh's Cry up I have found in most cases (not in dungeons) the bow and pet combo has produced more damage over the course of a combat. Arrows miss, get blocked; and all too often this happens just as you hit your spike. With Otyugh's Cry up, the pet usually hits. Some DPS is better than none.

RedDog91 · Nov 16, 2010, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Pet AI does indeed suck.
Good thing theres this handy little panel that lets you control whether your pet attacks or stays by you. Honestly, you can't blame pet AI, I don't think it was ever meant to be a system designed for the pet to coordinate itself. Blame the person who doesn't know how to use the interface.

And most people make the mistake of pressing all the pet attack skills really fast. they don't realize that the pet only activates the skill upon each attack, so one attack must seperate each skill use or you're wasting energy.

wilebill · Nov 16, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

And most people make the mistake of pressing all the pet attack skills really fast. they don't realize that the pet only activates the skill upon each attack, so one attack must seperate each skill use or you're wasting energy.

Exactly so! Pet attacks do not stack. Using a pet that is easy to see lets you know when it is in a position to use an attack. Moa is my favorite, black or white.

dasmitchies · Nov 16, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Targeting or switching targets is not controlled by mindless pet panel. Whatever skill u bring could be better used in another attribute. Channeling brings Splinter Weapon for example. Rangers are most usefull for aoe (Barrage) Melee (scythe) or single target lockdown/pressure. Leave the mindless meat shields to necros unless you can bring pets in force.

RedDog91 · Nov 16, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by dasmitchies

Targeting or switching targets is not controlled by mindless pet panel.

Unless you are mistaking the word "panel" for "AI", I have to disagree. The panel does control how your pet switches targets. Very well, I might add.

Quote:

Originally Posted by official wiki

Attack: When activated, the pet locks onto your target, and will attack it as long as it's in aggro range. If the target dies, moves out of range, or is reselected, the pet returns to Guard or Heel mode, whichever it was in before it entered Attack mode.
Guard: The pet moves to and attacks the same target as its owner, when the target is within range. (Casters will find this range is slightly less than casting/wand range, so they might have to take a step or two closer to the target before the pet will engage.)
Heel: The pet will not attack in this mode; if it is distant, it will return immediately to the owner's side.

You can easily change the pet's target by selecting a new target yourself and clicking the Attack command in the panel again. This is useful in some cases, because you can send your pet to attack one enemy while you attck another, if you so choose. In Guard mode, your pet will attack whatever you do, a bit troublesome for most Rangers because players tend to not pay attention to what the pet is doing. It will sometimes aggro surrounding groups. But, when used properly, its an OK mechanism.

Quote:

Whatever skill u bring could be better used in another attribute. Channeling brings Splinter Weapon for example. Rangers are most usefull for aoe (Barrage)

eh, whatever floats your boat. If overloading your team by aggroing 3 groups that were next to each other sounds fun, go ahead. Been there, done that.

Quote:

Melee (scythe)

lol? Half the meta builds (yes, 1 of the 2) brings a pet. Aren't you arguing against pets?

Quote:

or single target lockdown/pressure.

Not very useful in general PvE (for rangers). Low attack damage from bows doesn't "lockdown" an enemy as much as you like to think. True, conditions can pressure an enemy monk, but in a game where there's another group to fight just 3 steps away, you can't waste all your skills on pressuring 1 monk.

Quote:

Leave the mindless meat shields to necros unless you can bring pets in force.

Well, minions cause more unwanted aggro than pets, so I don't see the point...
and no need to bring pets in force when 1 pet can hold aggro just as well and deal more damage than 9 minions.

Uriel_Wolfblood · Nov 16, 2010, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

They buffed it becuz no1 ever ran pet builds
buffing HaO was the only way they could finally get people to run with pets outside of the totem axe farming.

I've been playing for a couple years now and have almost exclusively used pet builds on my Ranger

. Imagine my surprise when they buffed my already great beast master build.

But true, HaO has become the elite of choice for me and any other beast masters I know

maxxfury · Nov 17, 2010, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Pets from exp are really only good as a extra platform for physical buff to be deployed from...SoH, weapons spells and proccing MoP and daze ect.. or to enable the use of RaO..

Sad really

especially as its not an issue of "i dont know how to use them" either :/

FoxBat · Nov 17, 2010, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Differences between pets and heroes

1) Pets in guard mode don't attack something till you do. Heroes are generally faster in that they will follow ctrl + space, or defend against any party member being targeted where pets tend to respond to just the master being targeted.

2) Pets get seriously screwed up by kiting, or even enemies moving past them. There is some kind of decision-making delay when catching up to a guy and then attacking that is not present in most GW AIs. PvP pet builds emphasized cripple or knockdown spam for very good reasons.

freak_jay · Nov 17, 2010, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Hey guys,

thx for the fast reply. Nevertheless I want to underline that this thread was not supposed to be a platform for discussions whether Pets sucks or not. As far as we know now, the community is splitted.

However, why don't we focus on the aforementioned Beast Master build in order to improve it. Or show some viable alternatives that involves a pet to be able to play it in HM and NM.

I want to enjoy playing something new. I know that if I want to be effektive there are better builds for rangers. I just want to learn more about the gameplay of pets and try to find an optimal build for this gamestyle. I am not that type of player that loves 123 builds and sab-, discord-, or spiritway hereos. I take the time to adopt my build and my team to the areas and enjoy it. That's why I love GW - taking new challenges.

So let's take the challenge to find a Beast Master that can be played in HM

Greets,

Freak

Ratman · Nov 17, 2010, 11:18 AM // 11:18

If i'm running beast master I mosty use:
OgojYpXa6SQXNX5kyS4G8gvl0GA

Works pretty wel even in HM.

An other thing i'm working on is:
OgkkYpXJ2Vq0DmCGD2sBPIuBthAA

Haven't tried in HM yet and I want te replace res sig with sunspear res sig.

BrettM · Nov 17, 2010, 12:05 PM // 12:05

My usual BM build is OgATY5LjH63gz4zY342QWqWk2AA.

The Signet of Infection plays off the bleeding caused by Feral Lunge. However, this is optional, and that signet can be replaced with other skills. "You Are All Weaklings" can be a good choice, particularly in areas with many non-fleshy foes. Tryptophan Signet can also be a good choice, especially in HM.

You can also use this slot for an important secondary profession skill when needed. For example, Ra/Rt with Gaze of Fury for the Sunjiang District mission, which does not require any attribute respec. In other cases, you can afford to take some points out of Expertise to boost a secondary skill.

You can replace Call of Haste with Never Rampage Alone, if you prefer. I generally stick with CoH because it allows the pet to close with the foe more quickly, which NRA does not.

Note: I equip a +20e staff for running this build. 12+1+3 BM mask.

Aldric · Nov 17, 2010, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratman

If i'm running beast master I mosty use:
OgojYpXa6SQXNX5kyS4G8gvl0GA

Works pretty wel even in HM.

An other thing i'm working on is:
OgkkYpXJ2Vq0DmCGD2sBPIuBthAA

Haven't tried in HM yet and I want te replace res sig with sunspear res sig.

I'm running similar to these most of the time. I find full BM builds suffer due to the poor pet ai whereas a nice split spear/scythe build with Enraged Lunge/Scavengers/Comfort animal can be very effective.

I wouldn't ever take a res with a pet build, its not worth losing another slot and your build can be quite tight as it is

OgkjYtXWJT8gvlAZleKYyS4G0GA is what i'm running as R/P although Ebon Ward could be better over Asuran Scan, just havent been arsed to test it yet

Barbed is the skill that gets dropped most often for GDW or a pet buff if im in an area that i feel needs a change.

Illavos Lin · Nov 17, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I play a sin most of the time and as much as you guys are bashing pets they have an amazing spiking ability, Ive seen pure pet builds spiking and more then 170dmg per hit, with a constant 33% IAS, yes sometimes their are issues with targeting and making your pet go but this is easily fixed when using your pet bar and microing targets.

Even in PvP Outyugs (sry for spelling) Provides an almost constant unblockable attack, TBH the only known lock down for pet builds I know of is spamming Blinding surge on your pet, not to mention most times people are stupid and attack you and let your pet whail on them (Which they almost always die before you, and I Bring Heal as One which makes me basically a tank with the spammable healing)

And I would assume Anet made pets not have corpses seeing as to how their not effected by DP

This is what he uses
PvE OgUUEyxY5bSehGrS1S4G8GQBsAA
And he removes ET for Charm Animal for PvP